Family worship — hmm.


DISCLAIMER: This post is not in any way directed at any person living or dead. The judges decision is final. No correspondence shall be entered into.

Time for a little Friday Night Rant.

My last post, the purpose of purpose drew a number of responses, (thanks to all who commented!) including one from Sam that got me fired up (not at Sam)… after I let it simmer for a day I have some thoughts on ‘family worship’.

This may be a long one.

I will try and be concise, as I am aware that pages and pages of text does cause ones eyes to glaze over.

Here is the statement we shall consider:

Parent - “I prefer to keep my kids in with us in the adult service so we can worship as a family”.

There are many ways in which people can ‘do church’; gather as a house church, spread over a city in a cell church… but the paradigm which most of us operate in, is the ‘modern church’ in various denominations (or non-denominations). So when I talk about ‘church’ that’s the paradigm I am talking about.

I am all for the whole family unit experiencing God together, but so often it comes out of a very set cultural perspective. This often shows up when adults talk about a church meeting as the ‘worship service’, as if there is any other kind of service?

Let’s begin:

  1. Worship is a lifestyle, not a service attended once a week. As a family you worship in, and during, your day-to-day life. Being an example and training your children in the way they should go. So for a family to opt out of children’s ministry so they can ‘worship together’ during a service is a biblically defensible stance but probably misguided. You have been worshiping together the entire week, why not give your child an opportunity to ‘worship’ with their peers.
  2. The house of God (and worship) is not just about receiving, it is about GIVING! Don’t give your kids a perspective of church that involves sitting without serving. Please don’t create a Mary only child (Mary and Martha Luke 10:38-42) who sits at the feet of Jesus and never does the washing up.
  3. Whether your child goes to a Christian school or not, your child needs to build relationship within your church family. The church cannot give your child a thorough/solid/extensive knowledge of the word, in two hours a week (not the churches job mind you)… but give us a chance to teach them that the community of believers is THE place to develop faith and relationships that push you toward God.

Having children together with adults makes perfect sense in a house church, but look at the specific ministry paradigm you are in and judge accordingly. In my mind, the way that most of western Christianity (Europe, US, Australia, Great Britian, New Zealand etc.) structures church, leads in my mind for the need to create separate age specific meetings.

And I’m not saying that just ’cause its my job. :)

Maybe the children’s ministry at your church doesn’t really look like the above three points… hey… don’t bring me a problem unless you are willing to be part of the answer.

<and breathe>

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June 22nd, 2007
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Comment Number:
1
Written by:
Michelle
Posted on:
June 22, 2007 at 10:15 pm

I posted on this not too long ago, just not as eloquent as you! :-) I also largely look at what is age and developmentally appropriate for children…would you place your 2nd grader in a high school class to learn math? No! So why do we exoect our children to learn about Jesus in a setting designed for adults? Is that truly maximizing their potential for growth?

Comment Number:
2
Written by:
Mand
Posted on:
June 23, 2007 at 3:46 am

Oooh good post Dave!

In our home church we are all together and we usually have something very practical to do, but it is challenging to find activities that speak to the adults AND the children. Sometimes the children are forgotten eg when there was an Ignation meditation (not for 2 yr olds)!!!

My friend (with teens) really disagrees with Sunday School seeing it as a message that children don’t matter so they are sent out of the church to be ‘entertained’ whilst the adults get on and learn about Jesus.

But at my church the children want to go into Sunday School, they love being with their friends (it is a very small group of 12 children), they have the opportunity to ask questions, to explore things, to pray together with enthusiasm, to fidget, to move, to laugh loudly. Parents are welcome to stay with them if they want.

Though I love our church services the younger children get very little from it- the lengthy prayers are he hardest part for them to sit still and quiet, the sermons are often over their head and they can’t relate to what is being said.

Usually when it is school holidays there is NO Sunday School on and our attendance drops as parents just don’t come, finding it too much to rein the children in during the service.

One last point (really) I just love your statement on worship in your day to day life. This is my real passion and as a home educating mum I get the opportunity to practice this so much more!

Comment Number:
3
Written by:
Pudge
Posted on:
June 23, 2007 at 8:14 am

Right on buddy! :)

This is a common topic that comes up in CM and in churches. It reminds me of how I opened my blogging debut with a post called “How to bore your kids to hell…at church” it was…fun!

One day, we need to collaborate on a blog post…I love the passion!

Dave’s the Man!
pudge

Comment Number:
4
Written by:
kim
Posted on:
June 24, 2007 at 7:30 pm

Nice perspective on a constantly debated subject.

Comment Number:
5
Written by:
Steve
Posted on:
June 26, 2007 at 11:54 am

Dave,
I am a children’s pastor in the U.S. and I enjoy reading your blog. Thanks for all you do!

However, I do disagree with you on this issue. I do believe that families belong together during corporate worship. I do believe ther are appropriate times for segregating by age (Sunday School for example). I also agree with you that worship is not something that we just do on Sunday mornings - it is indeed a lifestyle. I believe in the importance of families worshiping together daily in their homes.

However, there is something special about our corporate worship. We have to remember to teach our children that we come together with other believers of all generations and worship the living God. They also need to know that worship is not about us and our likes, dislikes, preferences, etc. In Scripture, when God commanded his people to gather for worship - He commanded all His people together, not just the adults. The Covenant Community as one body coming together to worship the living God. Does that mean our young children get everything that is going on or that they are enthusiastic? Of course not, but it is not about them and they need to be taught that from the earliest ages.

Just as an example, in Joel 2:16, God invites all of His people to gather in sacred assembly, even “nursing children”. There is no evidence anywhere in Scripture of children being seperated from the adults for corporate worship.

Anyway, carry on the good work…

Comment Number:
6
Written by:
Lara Yates
Posted on:
July 8, 2007 at 6:48 pm

I ran into your blog while looking on the web for Jr Church ideas. My husband is pastor of a tiny mission church (25-30 people)in Western NY (2 hrs south of Niagara Falls). Hi! I was looking online for Children’s church formats/ideas. We’re experiencing problems with jr church. Currently we have kids go into worship service for Praises, Choruses (1-2 contemporary choruses/songs w/ overhead and CD), Hymns (1-2 with piano from hymn book), offering, and special music and are then dismissed downstairs. We were basically snacking the kids (ages 3 yrs-2nd gr), telling a Bible story, review questions, review/activity/coloring sheets to reinforce the story, then filler games, songs, etc if service is running long. There are myself and 2 other ladies that rotate 1 week each so we are all “being fed” upstairs in church. My husband and I want to revamp Jr church. We have two problems. 1) Our boys …”oh, that story…I know what happens next!” Good they know and remember, but don’t want things to become boring/stale for them, or Know-it-all syndrome for teachers and other kids. 2) Other two ladies have begun “just throwing in a christian video”. Week after week, this we feel is just a cop out, and the kids deserve better, plus there’s no questions afterwards, activites afterwards, etc, it’s just an easy way out of having to do any prep or having to mess with the kids. Soooo, I’m searching the internet for ideas on what other people do so we can revamp and do better. I would appreciate any ideas you have, or knowing what you currently do, what you did that didn’t work, etc. Thanks!
Lara Yates
Pastor’s wife, Central Baptist
Olean, NY

Comment Number:
7
Written by:
Dave Wakerley
Posted on:
July 10, 2007 at 8:52 am

Lara,

Lots of questions and thoughts to go through there. I HIGHLY recommend getting over to kidology.org and reading through some of the forum posts.

Become a member, if you are serious its not much money… And start asking questions.

http://www.kidology.org/network/forum/

Comment Number:
8
Written by:
Dave Wakerley
Posted on:
July 10, 2007 at 8:55 am

Steve thanks for your comments… appreciate you sharing.

Not sure what you mean about ‘Sunday School’? Is that at a different time? If so than you have an awesome structure to train and then put families together.

Dave

Comment Number:
9
Written by:
JoNathan
Posted on:
January 6, 2008 at 6:33 pm

Very Well Said. Thank you for being bold and speaking what was on your heart. It needs to be heard. **does a dance** Iya!

Comment Number:
10
Written by:
Dave White
Posted on:
April 7, 2008 at 9:04 am

I think that this topic brings out the best and worst among those who are responsible for ministering to children. Also, I think it’s a matter of personal preference, and upbringing that determines ones stance on this issue.

I was raised in several deep Southern Baptist churches that were too small in number to have any children’s ministry at all. I didn’t have a choice in where I went. I HAD to go to Big Church.

When my family started attending a church that had a separate kids service, I thought I was in Heaven. (I couldn’t believe how cool that flannel board was!) For the first time in my young life, I was excited about church. Someone was teaching me things about God that I could understand!

I’ve lived on both sides of this issue, and for me, there is no going back. My Pastor recently asked me what I thought about bringing all of the kids ages K5 - 6th grade into Big Church for praise and worship. I replied that for the 3 years that I have been on staff as the CP, I have worked very hard to teach our kids that it’s OK to worship like kids, and that they don’t have to worship like ‘little adults’ because they are NOT adults.

In response to STEVE who wrote, “There is no evidence anywhere in Scripture of children being seperated from the adults for corporate worship.”

Nehemiah 8:2(NLT) describes a worship setting where children who were “able to understand” were invited to worship with the adults. The other kids were either left at home, or were in Kids Church! Ha Ha!

The root of the matter is that you have to submit to your Pastor’s wishes, and personal convictions. Personally, I think that if we read and believe the research from the Barna Group, it’s imperative that we do everything in our power to reach kids where they are, and not make them try and ‘catch up’ with us.